Mailing List Message #11823
From: NetHead <>
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Network resources needed for dying mail
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:13:48 -0500
To: SIMS Discussions <>
X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998

Wasn't it SIMS Discussions who once said...
>Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 02:42:14 -0600
>Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Network resources needed for dying mail
>From: LuKreme <>
>On Friday, September 20, 2002, at 09:02 AM, NetHead wrote:
>> I actually have 2 utilities that do a traceroute: Interarchy (from
>> Stairways Software) and DNS Expert Pro (from Men & Mice). Now, I'll
>> swear
>> that I've done multiple traces from my mail server to Legend's. But
>> just
>> to be sure (this has been draggin on for 2 months!) I went back and did
>> another. I had not tried to do one with Interarchy before from this
>> machine, so I used it first. It, strangely enough, "stalls" before even
>> making the jump to MY router. (Just FYI, I can do a traceroute with
>> Interarchy via the dial-up; I just can't do it over my network... odd,
>> no?)
>Well, it pretty much puts the problem on your end of the connection.

OK, I'm beginning to be persuaded on this. Time to beat up my isp again!

>> But DNS Expert finds "" just fine. However a couple of
>> the
>> hops (3 & 4) do not indicate the ip of the hop.
>So, not exactly "just fine."  There is a problem.
>> Subsequent traces eventually turn up all the ip's and most of the names
>> of the various ip's. Is this significant?
>possibly it means that the route to legend is taking so long to resolve
>"good" that SIMS is giving up the connection.

Yes, it does seem to take a long time. Someone else in this lists noted
that SIMS tried for almost 5 minutes to make the connection before giving

>> I'll be happy to publish the traceroute here if it would be helpful and
>> no one objects. Just to allay my paranoia, that's not any sort of
>> "security risk" is it?
>the only real info is your IP (already in your mail headers) and the IP
>of your ISP (easily findable through dig and other utils).  I don't
>know of any issue with revealing a tracelog.

OK, that makes sense. I kinda suspected that most of the information was
"publicly" available via DIG and such... I just wasn't sure what was


>> Yes, although I did find one slight variance. While both used the same
>> ip, they had different "Additional Search domains:" in the TCP/IP
>> control
>> panel. I changed that, but surely it couldn't be that simple. It's the
>> ip's that count, right? (Thus far, I certainly can't see that it has
>> made
>> any difference).
>Errm.. Are you talking about the Mac OS "additional search domains"
>input area in the Network control panel (names may be off, it's been a
>long time since I looked at OS <X)?  If so, try clearing that input
>field completely on your mailserver.

Yes, it was in fact, "Additional Search Domains". I have deleted all
values in that field and restarted the server. I'll let you know if that
has any effect.

>>>> I keep trying to come back and blame my isp, but their argument is
>>>> pretty sound. I can e-mail anyone else in the world, so it can't be
>>>> the router.
>>> Of course it can.
>> Please expound on this, because I was pretty convinced that it was the
>> router, based on the fact that the ONLY time this fails is when I get
>> behind the router... but my isp basically made the case that if the
>> router were "defective", then NO mail would get through.
>If there was a problem where the router where blocking the PORT then
>yes, all mail would fail.  However, the router could be blocking
>something else (like the specific IP).  This doesn't seem to be a
>problem in your case, but you might, if possible, try disconnecting
>your router and connecting your mailserver directly to the broadband.  
>If that clears up the problem then you know there is a configuration
>problem on your router.  I doubt this is the case though.  There's
>something else going on.

I'm going to tend to concur, here. While the router MAY be at fault, it
is looking more likely that there is a configuration error in my isp's
DNS (see message entitled, "Mail error & its interpretation").

>>> Then legend couldn't connect to you either.
>> You think? It appears to me to be possible, since the mail we receive
>> from Legend (& our UK subsidiary) appears to be coming from an entirely
>> different server than the one we are sending to.
>Ah.  Ok, never mind then, if they are separate machine then sure.  
>However, the traceroute anomalies do seem to indicate a problem closer
>to home.  I will say that if this is it's a LOT of hops
>from me (24).

Hmmm, for me it's 17 (and that's dial-up AND netword traceroutes!)

Thanks, again, LuKreme. Your input has been insightful and very helpful.

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