Mailing List SIMS@mail.stalker.com Message #7611
From: Jill Herschman <jill@cjcj.org>
Subject: Re: Abort Received, reason=54 - null@null instead
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:53:58 -0800
To: (SIMS Discussions) <SIMS@mail.stalker.com>
Okay, I understand what you're saying.  So if I'm sending from the same
account (jill@cjcj.org) every time, what would cause some of my messages to
be:

SMTP-001(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Line: MAIL FROM:<>\r

And others to be:

SMTP-002(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Line: MAIL FROM:<jill@cjcj.org>\r

> From: Bill Cole <listbill@scconsult.com>
> Reply-To: <SIMS@mail.stalker.com> (SIMS Discussions)
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:02:17 -0500
> To: <SIMS@mail.stalker.com> (SIMS Discussions)
> Subject: Re: Abort Received, reason=54 - null@null instead
>
> At 10:25 AM -0800 1/29/01, Jill Herschman  imposed structure on a
> stream of electrons, yielding:
>> I'll start by apologizing again, this time for the html, very obnoxious, I
>> know.  I don't think I asked my last question correctly so I'm going to try
>> again.  Thanks, Bill for your response.
>>
>> The problem appears to be that all mail received by the server has "Input
>> Line: MAIL FROM:<>\r" as its return path, which is okay if I want the mail
>> to just be delivered to the client normally, but not okay if I want it to
>> bounce, which I absolutely do.  I've read in the archives that this means
>> that SIMS thinks the message is either a bounce or an auto reply and is
>> trying to avoid a loop, but it isn't either of those, it's me sending a test
>> message, and not from the same account every time, and not with the same
>> mail client, either.  I've pasted the log entry below, everything looks
>> pretty normal except for that one line, correct?
>
> Not quite.
>
> SIMS is NOT the agent which would send a bounce in this case. SIMS
> *IS* rejecting the mail, but it is doing so before receiving any of
> it, and so it is the *sending* agent which would need to decide what
> to do with the undeliverable message.
>
> i'll try to translate the logs so this is more clear...
>
>
>> Thank you for your patience with my beginning skill level.  Anything anybody
>> can to do help is greatly appreciated.
>> Jill
>>
>>
>> 07:34:20 4 SMTP(tcp) Connection request from [209.238.9.57:2647],seq=43,
>> 11/12
>> 07:34:20 4 SMTP Line 66 created for answering
>> 07:34:20 4 SMTP-066() Got connection from [209.238.9.57:2647]
>> 07:34:20 4 SMTP(tcp) Connection accepted from [209.238.9.57:2647], seq=43,
>> 11/12
>> 07:34:20 4 SMTP-066([209.238.9.57]) Sending 220-Stalker Internet Mail Server
>> V.1.7 is ready.\r\n220 ESMTP is spoken here.\r\n
>
> SIMS accepted a connection and sent back the standard banner.
>
>> 07:34:21 4 SMTP-066([209.238.9.57]) Input Line: HELO mail07a.vwh1.net\r
>> 07:34:21 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Looking for mail07a.vwh1.net
>> 07:34:21 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Sending 250 mailcjcj.org is pleased to
>> meet you\r\n
>
> The client introduced itself as mail07a.vwh1.net, SIMS verified that
> mail07a.vwh1.net resolved to the IP address used by the client, and
> acknowledged the introduction.
>
>> 07:34:21 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Line: MAIL FROM:<>\r
>
> The client says it wants to pass along  a message from <>
>
>> 07:34:21 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Sending 250 <> sender accepted\r\n
>
> SIMS acknowledges that it could take mail from <>
>
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Line: RCPT
>> TO:<nobody@mailcjcj.org>\r
>
> The client says this message that it wants to send is for
> <nobody@mailcjcj.org>
>
>> 07:34:22 1 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Recipient '<nobody@mailcjcj.org>'
>> rejected: user unknown
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Sending 550 <nobody@mailcjcj.org> user
>> unknown.\r\n
>
> SIMS knows of no such user, so it tells the client to not try to send
> the message.
>
>
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Line: QUIT\r
>
> the client says goodbye
>
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Sending 221 mailcjcj.org closing
>> connection\r\n
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Closing
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP-066(mail07a.vwh1.net) Input Stream ended
>> 07:34:22 4 SMTP disposing line 66
>
> And SIMS confirms the goodbye and closes the session.
>
>
> Note that AT NO POINT did SIMS ever see the actual message. It cannot
> send a bounce. SIMS doesn't even know that there really is a message,
> and even if it acted as if there was one, all it could say in a
> bounce is that a certain address connected and tried to send a
> message to a non-existent user. In this case, it doesn't even have
> anywhere to send a bounce.
>
> If you want a bounce from this transaction, the software that will
> have to do this is the client, not SIMS. If that client is a mailer
> like Entourage, the only 'bounce' would be an alert to the user that
> the message is undeliverable. If the client is another mail server,
> it would properly send the bounce back to the *envelope sender* which
> in this case is null anyway. usually that is handled by a 'double
> bounce' which goes to the postmaster account of the server which
> generates the bounce.
>
>
> --
> Bill Cole
> Senior Consultant, MAPS L.L.C. Consulting Services Group
> wkc@mail-abuse.org (work)
> bill@scconsult.com (personal)
>
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